Try command line?
dpkg -i /path/to/package.deb
That’s likely an app just not installed by default for GUI
Correct, but new users don’t want to need the command line for something as simple as installing packages.
New users probably shouldn’t be installing .debs, especially if they don’t know about terminal commands. I’ve seen so many fucked up systems from people treating Linux as Windows, as in installing everything by searching for stuff on their browser, downloading an installer and installing that.
Problem is a lot of closed source software still release their software as .deb or .rpm packages that installs their repos so you can install their software from the software centre.
If you tell new users they shouldn’t be installing Discord the way Discord tells them to, you’re only sending them back to Windows.
Most damage I’ve seen comes from PPAs and other repositories, indivual deb files usually come from proprietary software that’ll package all of its shitty proprietary dependencies.
Tell them to install via flatpak. Spotify, Discord and so on should be available as flatpak via Gnome Software or the KDE software center. NOW on Ubuntu, this is anyone’s guess. I’m guessing there is no flatpak support by default. Ubuntu is doing the linux community a disservice.
In other words, you’ve seen fucked up systems because people treat their Linux system like literally every non-Linux system they’ve used.
Which is a Linux problem, not a user problem.
“not being exactly like Windows” isn’t a problem at all.
Also, absolutely everyone is familiar with systems that use a central app repository instead of downloading executables with a browser, on their phone.“Oh look, this software isn’t available in the selection that Fedora/Ubuntu/Mint/whatever decided I should have. I guess I can’t install it despite the fact that there are compatible packages for my distro.”
Yeah right. Walled garden horseshit. Linux apologists do anything they can to move goalposts, to the point where using it is fucking impossible if you actually listen to every asshole’s personal opinion.
If you can’t adapt to the user’s behavior YOU are in the wrong. End of fucking story.
And seriously, you’re using an app store to illustrate why limiting user choice is good. What the actual fuck are you doing on a Linux sub anyway?
If you can’t adapt to the user’s behavior YOU are in the wrong.
To avoid this issue, I use a distro that doesn’t give a flying fuck about what the user wants.
That’s the original Linux way: Someone makes a distro in their free time for fun, or for themselves. If it’s useful to others, great. If not, they can go change it, make their own distro or fuck off.Repeat after me: FREE SOFTWARE ISN’T A PRODUCT. THERE IS NO PROFIT. MARKET SHARE IS IRRELEVANT.
So keep using Windows. Nobody cares.
respectful counterpoint: marketshare is important, especially if we want to get more users to use ethical softwares instead of corporate controlled proprietary messes.
that doesn’t mean this particular issue needs to adapt to a Windows-style approach (and in fact it already can with flatpakref files, AppImages, etc.), but dismissing accessibility to people unfamiliar with Linux or dismissing having a goal of increasing Linux usage is harmful to the longevity of desktop Linux in society, and harmful to the goal of competing with the monopolistic, proprietary platforms that currently dominate.
UBUNTU IS A PRODUCT. IT MAKES PROFIT. MARKET SHARE IS HOW THEY MAKE MONEY FOR DEVELOPMENT.
Or did you not even bother reading the fucking headline?
Or were you too busy moving the goalposts to even do that?
this software isn’t available in the selection that Fedora/Ubuntu/Mint/whatever
My man, those repos are vast as shit. The only time you will run into this situation is either if you’re using obscure software (that most newbies won’t use, and then again if you can’t Google a few things you shouldn’t be using obscure software) or stuff that isn’t supported on linux at all.
limiting user choice
We aren’t limiting user’s choice. You can do literally everything you want on Linux, just need to know how. You need to know how to do stuff in other OSes too btw, but doesn’t mean they will let you do everything.
Those repos are nowhere near vast as shit. It’s trivial to find software that isn’t one or more of them, and quite often what is there isn’t remotely a recent version.
Removing the ability to install .debs is literally limiting user choice and walling things off so the user doesn’t hurt themselves, the same shit that every fucking Linux knob has been squealing about Windows and MacOS doing for decades.
Flatpaks
I like finally seeing someone sane in a Linux sub. Am I dreaming? I love Linux but I hate how unapologetically elitist and blind the fanbase is regarding the egregious user-unfriendliness.
“But it works for me!!” - Yeah, Bob, you just spent 25 hours troubleshooting your network drivers and recompiling their kernel module.
“Just choose the distro you want!!!” - Yeah, Alice, you just spent 5 hours researching the various distributions available.
“I never had any problems!!” - Yeah, Kaitleiynn, you have the exact hardware configuration and OS combo that works perfectly.
I think you’re mixing up “You shouldn’t do this” with “you shouldn’t be able to do this”. The former is common in Linux, the latter is not. No one is advocating for the latter.
Unless you’re Ubuntu, apparently.
Hahah not a Linux problem at all
It’s hardly a Linux problem that other OSs have done things in an inferior way.
The “inferior way” being precisely the kind of walled garden Linux apologist types typically shit their pants and smear in on their faces about. But it’s fine because it’s UBUNTU’s walled garden! Can’t be using anything Ubuntu doesn’t allow!
A dozen incompatible distribution standards, with shit not even compiled for most of them, relying on the distro for updates that can run several versions behind because the newest version isn’t compatible with THEIR ecosystem…
But App Store bad. Windows Store bad. Play Store bad.
Piss on that hypocrisy.
A walled garden doesn’t offer you the freedom to leave it. If you’re unhappy with Ubuntu, you can use a bajillion other distros and get the same software elsewhere. If you preserve your home directory and distro hop then nothing changes for you and your preferences/dot files carry over. I jumped between three distros at some point and my custom GNOME setup (extensions and all) survived through it with minor changes. Heck. Even Thunderbird kept my profile active and I never had to re-add all my email credentials from scratch.
Can you do that with Windows or MacOS?
Can you do that with Windows or MacOS?
Yes, I can in fact download programs that aren’t on the Windows or Mac app stores. Are you even paying attention here?
The issue was that those users didn’t understand what they were doing and managed to mess up their systems. If you know what you’re doing then installing debs like regular could be totally fine.
You sound like Slackware is the distro for you. There’s no walled garden. In fact there isn’t a garden at all, you go out into the wilderness and forage, but first you have to learn how to make the plants edible.
Well it was the users who had a problem with their systems being messed up
Yes, by the shit-tier decisions of the distro developers.
You mean their decision to allow GUI installs of debs or what do you mean? The problem was the easy install and since they can’t control what is installed, the people I mentioned just installed whatever random shit not even made for the distro in question. It was a mess.
No it is not a system issue. User made an assumption and got a slap as this is not windows.
Something that worked last week now does not work.
System issue. Suck less shit at systems and maybe people in general would give a shit about Linux.
You act like problems don’t happen on windows and macOS. But they do happen, and they’re harder to fix than on linux most of the time.
Then again, with immutable distros, Debian, Linux Mint, and others, most of the time if something doesn’t work it is because the user did something to break their system and in those cases put effort into it.
If you are a user that only uses the computer to browse the web, maybe play some games on steam, then you’re unlikely to encounter any issues provided you chose the right distro (Mint would be my recommendation but I hear Fedora Silverblue works nicely). If you’re the kind of user to tinker a lot then you’re likely not a noob and you have no excuse for not looking up what you’re doing.
If you aren’t willing to learn at least the basics of how to do the stuff you want to do then probably you shouldn’t do that stuff, not blame the system for doing what you told it to do.
“Provided you choose the right distro.”
Yeah. Windows or MacOS if you actually want to do shit.
EDIT
Just wanted to mention, I’ve never had an issue with Windows or MacOS that wasn’t directly caused by my own personal fuckery. Somehow though, I’ve had multiple Linux distro installs decide to hose themselves because they didn’t update through the precious fucking package manager properly. You know, the thing that everyone is now shitting on users for not using?The most fun one was whenever a Debian update decided that the right thing to do was move my primary drive into a subfolder in /etc. Yeah. That fucking happened.
No, it’s a user problem on both OS’s. Installing random shit from untrustworthy sources is a much more likely source of infection that a zero-day, network-based exploit, etc
Not every OS allows you to simply click on a random installer/eventually (maybe enter a password) and get owned. IOS on phones doesn’t. Android requires you enable untrusted sources.
It sounds like not including a GUI app by default to click-install random packages (outside the package manager) is the extra step for various Linux distros. That’s not a problem, that’s a good idea.
- Random shit
- Untrustworthy
So github is untrustworthy now.
And again you’re arguing in favor of walled gardens. Fucking hypocritical imbeciles. Anything to keep your precious fucking OS free from criticism, right?
Github is untrustworthy, anyone can put anything on there. It is up to the end user to determine if a project is safe to use or not.
The default repos for Debain on the other hand are filled only with software that has been checked by at least one competent person, making them inherently safe.
But I thought the open nature of open source meant it was safe because someone has checked all code everywhere!
This shit has become tedious.
So github is untrustworthy now.
Was it ever trustworthy? What made you think that?
Thats also possible with appstream. But unless the repos go and people just install flatpaks, stuff like this will happen.
Add a GUI desktop entry for that, assign .deb file mimetype to it, bam. A usable experience.
Double clicking an OS native package should just open an installer. GDebi has been available for ages and it just works. This dpkg bullshit is exactly what Canonical wants you to do, make it annoying enough to install debs that anyone trying to do any business moves to snaps because they’re raiser for their end users.
It’s not hard to fix (just install one of the many .deb GUI handlers, preferably one that integrates well with your DE) but having to do this in the first place is stupid.
This was no accident. They want you to install apps via their walled garden snap store.
Ubuntu goes full enshitification… Glad I’m back to pure Debian for a long time
If a website stuffed a .deb into your Downloads folder and you click on it, should the default behaviour be to run it? Is there a significant pile of Ubuntu software out there that is unavailable in the apt and snap and flatpak stores? Other stores such as Steam and Epic (Heroic) are easily installable via … starting in your apt/snap/flatpak store.
The default beaviour shouldn’t be to run it, but it also shouldn’t be to tell you that a program that can run it doesn’t exist, when it actually does.
If you want to do it via GUI, default behaviour should be to tell you that for security reasons, installation of deb files from the web is disabled, with a link to the root-accessible setting that enables it (similar to Android, for example).A deb is not an executable. You can’t run it
And neither is a doc file, but most OSes would open up a compatible word processor.
It can install a service that will start automatically after install, so for all intents and purposes, if you click it and enter your sudo password, you might as well have run an executable.
It has pre and post-install scripts. Once you hand it off to dpkg, it can do pretty much anything.
Well, that marks the first time I’ve seen anyone refer to it as “the apt store.” Thanks, I hate it.
I’m off to download some standards docs from the ieee-shop 👨🔧 🍄
Unpopular opinion, I think this should be like this if there exists a snap or a package in the repo for it. Even if this is a bug. Maybe they should make a popup educating users about how they don’t need to download installers. As for apps like discord, I believe there is a well maintained snap package available to install easily from the app center. I can’t seem to find chrome there sadly, but it is on flathub. I hope it gets a package.
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Local deb packages suck ime.
