I’m interviewing for a software dev job currently (it’s in the initial stages). If things work out, I’d absolutely prefer a work laptop with Linux installed (I personally use PopOS but any distro will do), a Mac will be second choice, but I absolutely cannot tolerate Windows, I abhor it, I hate it… (If all computers left on earth have Windows I’d either quit this field or just quit Earth).
Sometimes it’s possible to tell if they use Windows or not, for example, jobs with dotnet/C# are most likely using windows, but not in my case.
Anyways, is it too weird to ask what kind of laptop they provide to their employees? And to also specifically ask for a Linux (or anything but windows) work laptop?
A job interview isn’t just for the company to find out if you are a good hire for them. It’s also for you to find out if the company is a good employer for you.
So yes, ask away. And if they cannot meet your criteria you just don’t start working there.
Much like with dating, showing you have some standards and aren’t just desperate for the first thing that comes along makes you a lot more attractive. If I was interviewing candidates and one of them respectfully voiced a preference for a certain OS laptop during the interview, I would probably look more favourably on them than someone who didn’t voice a preference, all else being equal.
Honestly its best if you say “I prefer Linux but I can be flexible with environments” although in a interview you probably have more important things to show.
Relevant username ^
They said “we’ll get you a laptop” and I said “it’s gotta be macOS or Linux, I have no idea how to use windows”
Exactly this. There are some things I usually ask about every interview that kind of shows my hand about what I’m looking for, but also forces them to either answer me, or eliminate themselves as candidates in my mind.
However it’s important to note that this only holds true when you’re an in demand sector, where you aren’t an easily replaceable token. Otherwise they can just skip over you as too much potential trouble lol
It’s not a weird thing to ask during the interview. It would be a weird thing to request, but not to enquire about.
I don’t know about that. During my job interview, I requested that (with the necessary politeness) and it wasn’t weird. I accepted the offer and now work daily on a GNU+Linux machine. It’s nice.
I’d enquire during the interview and request when accepting the offer (or during onboarding). Don’t ask me for a laptop while I’m still interviewing. It’s an interview. I’m not giving you shit.
It’s a normal thing to ask in an interview, I ask the same every time, so far I’ve always gotten one, after all most things I work with require Windows machine to have WSL anyways, so might as well cut one layer.
That being said it all comes down to how you ask it and how valuable you are, if a junior said “I only work with Linux, either you give me a Linux box or I won’t take the job” you might be cut from the race by HR before any person who even understands what you’re asking gets to see you because you’re being inflexible. If on the other hand you’re a senior and go through the interview and at the end when you get to the questions ask what’s the policy for OS on work machines, you’re much more likely to get the answer you’re looking for. That is unless you’re working for a Windows specific program, which obviously will need a Windows box, and not many companies are willing to give you two PCs.
But dont count 2 pcs out of the race, in most cases your salary is way more expensive than the nicest laptop they offer.
Yeah, but companies always skimp on IT, be it infra or something as basic as laptops.
For sure, in fact I do have a Windows box besides my main Linux laptop from the company I work for. But this is because I work most of the time with Linux but there’s one specific thing that needs to be done on a Windows box. Luckily for me they have been very accommodating in that regard, but I could see a different company saying I would only get a Windows machine since it can do all of the flows.
I agree it’s more about who, when and how you ask than the ask itself.
Honestly run if you can run a bunch of VMs on a Linux host. That way you can be very flexible and have multiple test environments.
It’s not weird, but be ready to be turned down for the job if they’re a Windows shop.
I personally got hired recently, and did ask this in one of the interviews, and luckily we can choose which OS we get to run on the machines. However only those with Windows get IT support if needed. Which I guess is fair… Hope you get your wishes fulfilled!
I’ve always asked when talking to the person in charge (not HR, they don’t know jack): “Which OS do you use and are you open to Linux?”
Had to turn down multiple jobs that were Windows/Mac only. They deployed web apps to the cloud aka linux and refused to develop on linux 🤷
Last I remember, according to the stackoverflow dev survey 40% of devs used Linux at work. Don’t be afraid to ask.
No, it is not weird. Ask them
It’s part of salary negotiation for me. When I figure how much they have to pay me, I add some more in if it’s o365 or teams.
It’s a pittance, easily dwarfed by a RTO tax or forced standby tax, but it’s in there.
You should ask this, but maybe hold back on the “I abhor it” stuff.
While for some places it may even be a good sign you want Linux, serious rejection for other platforms may look like a lack of flexibility. Who’s to say you don’t have the same strong feelings about other stuff?
I’m not a software developer, but I absolutely do coding and one of the standard questions I ask is what OS they run on official company approved laptops. Other then a shitty bank I worked at for a few years (bad idea, but at least I got a pension out of it), all of them allow windows, osx, and at least one flavor of linux. If they don’t allow that stuff, you should just turn down the offer anyway.
I wouldn’t work a windows exclusive job, it’s a deal breaker for me, so I’d definitely ask. I work in an all Mac shop that does enterprise cloud architecture.
@carl_dungeon @flakpanzer Personally an apple job would be even lower on my list than a Windows job (which is already a deal-breaker to me)
Agreed. The average Windows laptop has three critical redeeming qualities, over a similar Mac:
- Ease of live booting into Linux
- Ease of dual booting into Linux
- Ease of reimaging to Linux
Or at least WSL so you’re testing on a LinuxKernel.
Yeah. Joking aside, WSL wins over Mac, for me. It’s not perfect, but it’s closer.
If you value getting paid I’d highly suggest not tampering with any computer that isn’t yours.
@MajorHavoc Plus it can even be quite ecologically good, the parts are not serialized so you cannot replace them yourself, it almost feels as if you own it (especially once you own the software on it)
Why? Having used all three, currently using all three in some capacity…I’d put them in order of Linux, Mac, then windows. At least with Mac you have a *nix like system with things like zsh, coreutils, homebrew, and iterm2. You can even set up tiling window managers.
Not to mention they are fantastic pieces of hardware and if you are doing any dev work with AI/ml the metal cores are sweet.
In my experience most non-Microsoft organisations use Mac’s for development but deploy to Linux in production.
It’s rather insane because this of course creates lots of subtle differences between Dev and prod, although not as many as if dev was a Windows box.
To answer your question though - just ask in the interview what the deal is so you know what you’re in for.
If you deviate from the norm (i.e request a Linux box when everyone else is using MacOS) you’re always going to be the guy with issues that nobody else has.
If the company has any kind of standard mobile device management - it probably won’t work on Linux.
This will trigger the security team and probably the IT team because there’s always this outlier device that can’t run the standard VPN client or can’t have DNS config pushed to it or the Linux version of some app has bugs that don’t surface on the Mac version
Im Linux all the way, but saying the difference from Windows to prod is bigger does not take wsl into account. It is way more near linux production environments than Mac.
Thanks for saying that. I have no idea why that gets overlooked so often.
As much as I like to shit on Windows, WSL is ingenious and many dev tools integrate it nicely.
I really don’t get why Apple doesn’t offer anything in that direction, where devs are a big target audience for them and they already ride the POSIX train.
You wanna go for start-ups then. Most bigger and medium-sized companies have centrally-managed security where they wanna push updates and such to all computers or there’s some corporate spyware everyone’s gotta run or they’ve got everyone on M$ Office etc etc. Odds are a place that lets you use a linux laptop is going to be reluctant to buy you one and invite you to use your own. Macbooks aren’t so bad, if they let you have sudo, lots of places use those.
Even at big companies, devs get flexibility because they need to run a bunch of random stuff that can look sketchy to security software.
Sometimes, somewhat.
I’ve lost so many days waiting for info sec to issue exception approvals to install an sdk ugh
Now I just have to find a startup… any suggestions?
Talk to people.
Unless you want to be an SDR or something either high turnover and therefore lots of demand. Then indeed or any job hunting site.
@pudcollar @flakpanzer Depends, in real computer science companies technical people will use #Linux
But if you’re not in a really technical company and/or in a not-that-technical division of the company, then I guess it will be BYOD then.
Sounds like it’s better for you to ask now so you can decline the job is they’re a Windows only shop.
That’s not a good way to make an impression
At my company this is known as a green flag to the recruiter. ;)
