I have tried to learn Linux for ages, and have experimented with installing Arch and Ubuntu. Usually something goes wrong when I try to set up a desktop environment after installing Arch in VirtualBox. KDE gave me a problem where I couldn’t log in after getting to the point where my username was displayed in a similar format to how it is for Windows. My end use case is to help keep my workflow more organized than haphazardly throwing files somewhere on my desktop or in a folder nested somewhere that I’ll just inevitably lose :(
Somehow after all this time, I feel like I actually understand less about my computer and what I need to understand regarding its facets. Is it an unrealistic goal to want to eventually run a computer with coreboot and a more cybersecurity heavy emphasis? I’m still a noob at this and any advice would be appreciated!
KDE is usually fine for a beginner, but don’t start with Arch unless you intend to learn Linux by solving a thousand different technical issues based on vague log statements throwing around terminology you’ve never heard of. KDE and Linux Mint are the most Windows-like Linux environments out of the box.
Ubuntu uses GNOME by default, which doesn’t do a lot of things Windows does. I like it, but others don’t. KDE is a lot more “normal” but setting it up right from scratch is a pain; the Arch masochists may like it, but I sure don’t.
If you pick a distro that ships with KDE I’m sure you’ll be able to use it right after installation. That goes for other desktop environments too, whether it’s Gnome (the Ubuntu/Fedora default), Cinnamon (the Mint default), XFCE, LXDE, or one of the many others.
If you’ve already gotten some usage out of KDE, I suggest trying out Fedora. Fedora has a KDE release that ships with everything you need with a user friendly installer that will take care of pretty much everything for you.
If you want to use Linux with Nvidia hardware (i.e. outside of VirtualBox), consider Pop_OS!, a distribution that prides itself in making the terrible Nvidia drivers work out of the box. Most other GPU vendors are fine with any other distro, but Nvidia requires special handling.
If you do give Arch another go, read through everything completely before even beginning the installation process. Make notes of every decision you make (what network manager do you want to use? are you going to make your life harder by not using systemd? what partition layout do you prefer?) and make sure you’re ready to spend an entire day following guides. You’ll be able to name every component your Linux setup consists of, which is great for troubleshooting, but don’t feel pressured to spends all that time.
There’s a reason the majority of Linux users use Ubuntu or maybe Fedora.
I have tried to learn Linux for ages, and have experimented with installing Arch and Ubuntu.
There’s your problem. Try Linux Mint.
Is it an unrealistic goal to want to eventually run a computer with coreboot and a more cybersecurity heavy emphasis? I’m still a noob at this and any advice would be appreciated!
Don’t try to bite off more than you can chew. Start small and easy, with a beginner Linux distro, and once you’ve become really comfortable with that, you can try to move onto something less user friendly.
Downloading the ISO right now! I think that was routinely the case where I was “installing” Arch nearly every other day. I’ll update how it goes once I get it up and running. Thanks for the suggestion :)
Don’t start with the most complicated distro and then fail.
Mint is great. I recently switched fully to Linux and mint feels comfortable
Arch is a bad distro for newbies. Go find an ISO for Kubuntu and install that. The install wizard is idiot-proof. I use KDE-based distros like Kubuntu even though I’m a fairly advanced user so don’t view it as some kind of failure. There’s no virtue in using more complicated stuff. Get comfortable with the easier distros first.
Is it an unrealistic goal to want to eventually run a computer with coreboot and a more cybersecurity heavy emphasis?
No, its not unrealistic. However, what I think is unfair to yourself is to attempt this before knowing what you are doing. Think of it like learning to draw. You have good taste, and you see art you like, and want to do it too. Yet your personal skill level, you finger dexterity, isn’t yet there to be able to make the art you can visualize in your mind.
If a task is too hard, or to complex, then there must exist a smaller, easier task to accomplish first. Coreboot specifically is an extremely low hardware/firmware level system, but you don’t feel confidant in installing a working desktop OS. You have aspirations for cyber security, as well. Find the smaller, and easier task first. Get Debian/Ubuntu working in a VM. Then look at what software is installed, and read about it. If you want to eventually pursue security projects, setup a LAMP stack. If that too hard, just get the A in LAMP. If that’s too hard, find out why. What do you know, what do you not know? It’s machines all the way down, and its an extremely small chance you are the first person with a problem. Don’t worry about “correctness” and focus on the learning experience.
It is 100% achievable, but it is a lot of time. I started with it because I wanted to run a game server for myself. It’s a couple of decades later, and I still have a massive amount to learn.
I really like the comparison to drawing and the gap between what I’m seeing in my head and my actual ability to carry out the task! Something hypnotized me when I first got introduced to the world of free software. Initially I started out learning LaTeX to make math worksheets for my tutees because Microsoft Word made me want to violently smash my keyboard. Further rabbit-holing and forum-crawling convinced me that I needed to download Arch or else it simply “wasn’t worth it”, which is completely wrong in itself.
Never have heard of a LAMP stack, but I’ll check it out. I’ll try to persevere through frustration and just look at errors as a way of learning from my mistakes. Eventually I hope to have a grander control and understanding of my devices, but this will just come with time. Thanks for the encouragement!
Just a sidenote: LAMP is a traditional webserver stack. L = Linux, A = Apache (web server), M = MySQL (database), P = PHP (or Perl or Python, depending on who you ask—some server-side programming language, anyway). So it might not be germane to your use case.
Hey! Sorry its taken a while to get back. I’m almost at the point where I can order everything for my NAS which will then necessitate learning Apache, MySQL, and how to implement programs in the best suited language for the job. I did a lot of Python in undergrad so I should be trainable in that regard.
Are there any resources or Wiki you’d suggest to get started regarding interacting with a server?
Further rabbit-holing and forum-crawling convinced me that I needed to download Arch or else it simply “wasn’t worth it”, which is completely wrong in itself.
Unfortunately Arch appeals to, and is loved by, a specific kind of user. They aren’t really interested in being more newbie friendly, which is totally fine. Debian, and by extension Mint, actively trying to help new people use the software, and is very newbie friendly. Most people asking for help use these types, and thus a lot of the helpful guides use these as a base. OpenSuse also does a very good job too, but it is pretty different than Debian in how it is structured, so not all guides written for Debian will work the same way. When you know about how different Linux ecosystems work, the less which specific distro you are using matters. So don’t worry too much about picking the “right” one.
Initially I started out learning LaTeX to make math worksheets for my tutees…
This is the best way, find something you want to do, and learn how to do it. Follow the rabbit holes! You never really know where they go.
Follow the rabbit holes! You never really know where they go.
I completely agree with this one! Been awhile since this comment was posted, but I’ve had a great deal of fun with Pop!_OS after I nearly went mad. I used my arch system for about 2 months exclusively. Right now I’m dual booting it and Windows. I’m exploring Windows with new eyes again just so see what exactly was abstracted away from me and I’m just using it to get work done more efficiently.
Thanks for the initial advice :) I’m working towards using only a Linux system and I learned I liked Debian as well. Ubuntu, Mint, and OpenSUSE didn’t really feel the way I wanted them to, and I still was piecing together concepts that were fuzzy from my 20 years of Windows usage getting in the way.
Currently trying to get Gentoo onto a Chromebook and got curious about hypervisors so a new rabbit hole has reared its head…
You definitely don’t need Coreboot. Try Linux Mint to start with, and just use your computer as you normally would. Getting comfortable with how Linux does things is something you need to learn before taking the next steps. No one became a Linux guru by reading the “Linux manual” front to back. I picked up almost all of my Linux knowledge on-the-fly because I broke something or because I wanted to do something.
Also, if all you want is better cybersecurity, you’ll make a huge leap just by picking any Linux distro. Save Coreboot, full disk encryption, etc for at least a few months down the road when you’re picking a new distro and have a better idea of what you want to do differently.
You’re on the right track! That feeling of understanding less is normal - and good news is that it isn’t true. You understand more than you did before - but now you also know of some other things you don’t know about yet. This is good and exciting! I wish I were in your shoes so I could experience this for the first time again.
I would recommend Fedora Silverblue 38. It is an immutable OS, meaning that it is impossible to break it to the point where it doesn’t work. Since the root file system is read only, like a mobile OS, you would be hard pressed to actually break it. Don’t worry though, most graphical applications are available as flatpaks on Flathub. Flathub is integrated with the app store in Fedora 38, no need to use the terminal. For terminal applications you want to use there are toolboxes, which are little mini fedora containers that have access to your home directory and some other integrations. Also Fedora Silverblue is easy to install and works with most hardware.
I’d give it a try! It has been quite fun to have a Linux system and to finally feel more comfortable with the Unix-like way of using a computer. It has greatly simplified a lot of things I needed to do when I was in uni, such as uploading and processing data from a DAC as well as the simplified way of managing packages and CLI workflows. I never knew how many times the task just needed a solution with a Regex in it, but it takes one awhile to learn it.
It feels weird to go from being a lifelong Windows user to using Linux. Unfortunately, I chose Arch to be the distribution I’d struggle with because I was too stubborn to give up. Now that I’m a little more comfortable with systems, I’ve been hopping around tinkering in different virtual machines. It took quite some time before I felt I got fluid enough with the CLI, but it makes everything feel like a text adventure game! It’s so nice to be more comfortable with Vim when I need to do systems work, access servers remotely via SSH, or navigate the system more easily. I never thought you could agnostically open files, so that was nice to learn. It’s impressive the beast of programming problems that needed to be solved before one could have a seamless in-home system. I can’t imagine shuffling magnetic tape through a dinosaur, or the hoops you’d have to jump through and technical knowledge to use a PDP-10 or older computer. Lots of respect for the gurus who can speak in tongues for those machines :) Thanks for the advice, never knew immutable OSs were a thing.
Bog standard arch is absolutely not what I’d recommend to a new user, maybe endeavor if they’re really asking for it, but you really should have some idea what you’re doing before using arch. Try Linux Mint or Pop OS. I’m surprised you had an issue with Ubuntu, though I haven’t used it since like 16.04 so maybe it just is a pain now.
Start with Ubuntu, eventually switch to Debian, then give Arch a shot.
Don’t use regular Arch if you’re struggling. There are some arch-based distros that are more user friendly, though. Like EndeavourOS or ArchMan. Manjaro can be good too but there are legitimate problems with how the project is run.
I was having graphics driver problems in Ubuntu-based distros until I tried Linux Mint.
If you get crashes right before or after login, it’s often a (Nvidia) graphics issue. To get around this, you could use nomodeset in the Grub menu to get a successful first boot where you can then install the proprietary drivers.
Look at sections 4 and especially 5 on this page
Also, here is that info in a tutorial formatAlso, you may want to set the Desktop Environment to Xorg or X11 (same thing) if Wayland is causing you problems. It’s older, but in some cases more efficient and less experimental. Check out the section: Switching desktop environments using a graphical user interface. It should look similar to the pictures. And notice that the “gear” icon may not appear until you select a user.
If your problem is different than this, open a support ticket in the discord or forums of the distro you’re using. Linux Mint has a great system for this on Discord.
Don’t use regular Arch if you’re struggling. There are some arch-based distros that are more user friendly, though. Like EndeavourOS or ArchMan.
Yeah, this 100%. Honestly, plain Arch isn’t all that hard to use. I’d argue it’s probably easier in a lot of ways compared to more mainstream distros…once you have it setup that is. Arch isn’t hard, Arch SETUP is hard, so having downstream distros do the hardest part of the work for you is absolutely key to a good experience if you’re just starting out.
Keep it simple, Ubuntu/Mint/PopOS, play around with it for at least a few months before trying an arch install
If I were you I would start by using standard Ubuntu desktop. In my experience it tends to be the most reliable, easy to install, least technical and does alot of stuff behind the scenes that others don’t. A simple thing like plugging in a printer works very well in Ubuntu but is a nightmare on opensuse.
If you still run into issues then start to troubleshoot, especially if you are installing on bare metal and not a VM. Often the most common issues are WiFi drivers and graphics drivers. This is because these companies often don’t make their code available so other Devs have to reverse engineer their own code and it’s not included in the kernel. It has you need installed after installation. If your pc has an ethernet port or ethernet adapter I HIGHLY recommend using that when installing.
In Ubuntu open the search page and type “drivers” and it will show you an option to install additional drivers. Click that and it should detect what hardware you have and give you the choice to tick a box and install those drivers. Your must be connected to the internet via ethernet for this to work. After successful installation, reboot and the WiFi/graphics card should work.
If you have issues Google it an Ubuntu normally has TONS of answers.
My only issue with this is that the Ubuntu desktop is really buggy right now. 23.04 has plenty of odd issues like the file browser not showing the correct file as deleted, instead making it look like another random one in the same directory got deleted. But refreshing the file browser corrects the graphical issue. But due to many little paper cuts like that I’d shy away from recommending Ubuntu.
I cannot stress this enough…
POP!_OS
For real this is The One for new users. It just works.
Even though Arch is very well documented, it’s not really accessible to newcomers. The documentation assumes that you know the basics, so if you don’t, you’re screwed. Mint, Pop! and Debian, to some extent, are much more accessible.
As an absolute noob, I can tell you this is not the case for Arch based images though. I’ve used Manjaro and now settled on Crystal Linux. Both Arch based. They are as easy as any other distro, even more than Debian.
Debian, in their philosophy, provides a pretty bare ones image, and you have to add everything yourself. They don’t even ship Flatpak for example.
Pop! Has an archaic Gnome desktop but an otherwise excellent system.
I don’t like Mint’s desktop environment, but that’s very subjective, so no cons there.
